HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

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RJES
Posts: 6
Joined: 07 Dec 2021, 08:58

HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by RJES »

Hi, I wondered whether anyone has ever had any success connecting the two USB 3.0 cameras via a USB hub? I know connecting direct to the PC recommended, but I would like to simplify the wiring as much as possible by mounting a (powered) hub on the rail with the cameras and projector, and wondered whether the chances of success maybe depend on the quality of the cables and / or hub? I have tried using a hub with unreliable results. However, the same experimenting seems to have shown that the quality of the USB 3.0 cables is critical.
The only cables I have with which the cameras work reliably (without a USB hub) are the ones which came with the HP kit. I would really like to use different cables for a couple of reasons:

1. 2 or 3 shorter cables plugged together. This is so the cables can be restrained at the PC end and the scanner rail end, so any unintentional tension on them cannot damage the laptop or camera sockets when used in a workshop environment, and any such cable tension just unplugs the inline join between the cables instead.
2. So I can potentially use or experiment with a USB 3.0 hub on the camera / projector rail. If I can get this to work, as well as needing one less long USB 3.0 cable, it will mean I can semi permanently wire everything to a docking station for my Lenovo W520, as the docking stations are only available with one USB 3.0 port. This would result in a very neat setup as the laptop with the HP dongle can then just be docked and undocked from the scanner without having to undo any wiring.

Multiple shorter cables like this works fine for the projector HDMI, but I just cannot get it to work reliably with any combination of the USB 3.0 cables that I have other than the HP / Copartner USB cables from the kit. I have tried the cables with and without TDK clip on ferrite beads, which made no difference. I strongly suspect that all USB 3.0 cables are not the same in terms of their internal spec, but have been able to find very little information about which may be better quality. If anyone else has any experience of this, it would be interesting to hear how you got in with either non standard cables or a USB hub for the cameras. Thank you.
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OBNRacerMan
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Location: Obninsk, Russia

Re: HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by OBNRacerMan »

A USB3.0 camera usually draws a maximum current of about 1A, which can be supplied by one standard USB3.0 / 3.1 port. Accordingly, in order to connect two cameras to it, at least you need to have an active hub (with additional power), but it is better if the hub has a USB Type-C (USB3.2) connection to a computer - then there will definitely not be any restrictions on the bandwidth of the stream from two cameras (but for cameras with a small number of megapixels (1.3, 2 or 3 megapixels) this is not very relevant).
Soft: RangeVision DIY, Calibration panel/Rotary tables - RangeVision, Prj: LG PF1500G, Cam: Daheng Mercury MER-630-60U3M-L (USB3.0, monochrome) x2, Obj: ZLKC HM1628MP10 (F2.8, 10Mp, 16mm) x2 & Azure 3518M3M (F1.8, 3Mp, 35mm).
RJES
Posts: 6
Joined: 07 Dec 2021, 08:58

Re: HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by RJES »

Thank you very much for the reply. I had hoped to measure the camera current, but I only have a USB 2 power meter, and USB 3 versions don't seem to be very widely available. The hub I have has a power socket, but did not come with a power supply, and has very little information on what it's specifications are. As I don't have a suitable plug in power supply for it, I used a bench power supply set to 5.0V which conveniently has a current meter during my experimenting. When I briefly had both cameras working through the hub, the bench power supply was supplying 620 mA to the hub. However I am unsure whether this is in addition to whatever power the laptop is supplying. Usually the laptop just fails to see two cameras when connected via the hub (although occasionally it also does this with no hub and the cables from the HP kit.
Maybe it is a power issue. I think I need to buy either a USB 3 power meter, or USB 3 hub which says that it can supply 1.8A or 2A in it's specification.
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OBNRacerMan
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Location: Obninsk, Russia

Re: HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by OBNRacerMan »

You can see the maximum current that the device can consume in the USBDeView program (it shows what is written into the device by the manufacturer).
Here is a link to the archive with this program (on GoogleDrive) also contains the UsbTreeView program - it allows you to get information about the device connection in a convenient form, as well as much of what is available to it from the functions.
P.S. The programs do not require installation.
Highlighted currents of cameras YW500U3 and Daheng MER630
Highlighted currents of cameras YW500U3 and Daheng MER630
UsbTreeView interface
UsbTreeView interface
Soft: RangeVision DIY, Calibration panel/Rotary tables - RangeVision, Prj: LG PF1500G, Cam: Daheng Mercury MER-630-60U3M-L (USB3.0, monochrome) x2, Obj: ZLKC HM1628MP10 (F2.8, 10Mp, 16mm) x2 & Azure 3518M3M (F1.8, 3Mp, 35mm).
RJES
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Joined: 07 Dec 2021, 08:58

Re: HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by RJES »

Thank you. They look very useful. I have downloaded the file, but need to get software to extract the files - I had to download Winrar too - I've not had to uncompress a .rar file for a few years! I can see that each camera (the standard HP 3D 2.3 Cam Pro cameras from the Pro S3 kit) can draw a maximum of 400 mA.

I loaded my USB 3.0 hub with my camera with my phone and some other hardware on charge to see whether the hub is capable of drawing at least 800 mA from the bench supply that I have it powered from. It seems to be OK at least up to 1.24 A.

This article https://www.techspot.com/article/2081-how-usb-works/ explains that a lot 'USB 3.0' cables do not actually meet the required spec, so I guess that I need short high quality cables to know for certain whether both cameras can work via the hub at all. I see that among Startech's USB 3.0 cable range, some of them are 'Certified SuperSpeed', and cost quite a bit more than their budget cables. I may get some of their short (1m) A to Micro B cables to see whether these then work with the powered hub.
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OBNRacerMan
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Re: HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by OBNRacerMan »

I don’t know what kind of connector you have on your cameras. With my Daheng cameras (USB3.0) with a microUSB3.0 connector, I use these cables 3 meters long (my previous Mindvision cameras were already supplied with similar cables in the kit)
P.S. It should be noted that some computers have a USB3.0 controller that does not fully comply with the USB specification. And it may not work when connecting, for example, two cameras at once. In this case, one camera can work normally.
Soft: RangeVision DIY, Calibration panel/Rotary tables - RangeVision, Prj: LG PF1500G, Cam: Daheng Mercury MER-630-60U3M-L (USB3.0, monochrome) x2, Obj: ZLKC HM1628MP10 (F2.8, 10Mp, 16mm) x2 & Azure 3518M3M (F1.8, 3Mp, 35mm).
RJES
Posts: 6
Joined: 07 Dec 2021, 08:58

Re: HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by RJES »

Thank you. Yes, my cameras use the same connectors. That aliexpress store has the best selection of cables with the micro B USB 3.0 connectors with the locking screws that I have seen. I can see in some of the photos that the cables are manufactured by Copartner - the same as the cables supplied in the HP 3D Scan kit! Searching aliexpress for "USB 3.0 Micro B Cable screw" found more options and better prices. Amazingly many of these have more technical information about the cable spec than most of the cables sold by Farnell. I have ordered some to try.

I think the USB controller in my Lenovo W520 is OK. It works with two the cameras, but occasionally does lose connection to one of the cameras. This can be either camera, so I don't think it is caused by a bad connection or a faulty camera. However, after disconnecting and then reconnecting the camera it seems to work again, even when part way through a series of scans.
RJES
Posts: 6
Joined: 07 Dec 2021, 08:58

Re: HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by RJES »

I ordered a pair of these cables https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3265901 ... vYpNZ&mp=1 to try, but can confirm that they do not work with the HP cameras, even when plugged directly into the laptop (no hub). The cameras are recognised by the HP 3D Scan Pro setup window, but no images appear in the HP 3D Scan Pro windows.
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OBNRacerMan
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Re: HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by OBNRacerMan »

RJES wrote: 26 Dec 2021, 22:07 The cameras are recognised by the HP 3D Scan Pro setup window, but no images appear in the HP 3D Scan Pro windows.
And yet there are no errors in Device Manager or Devices and Printers? You can also see through the programs that were above, whether anything has changed when connected through new cables. My cables 3 meters work fine (included in the USB3.0 ports on the system unit).
Soft: RangeVision DIY, Calibration panel/Rotary tables - RangeVision, Prj: LG PF1500G, Cam: Daheng Mercury MER-630-60U3M-L (USB3.0, monochrome) x2, Obj: ZLKC HM1628MP10 (F2.8, 10Mp, 16mm) x2 & Azure 3518M3M (F1.8, 3Mp, 35mm).
Alonso
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Joined: 05 Dec 2016, 05:55
Location: USA

Re: HP 3D Scanner camera cables and USB hub?

Post by Alonso »

I got my 3m long cables from this listing back in 2017.
CY 90 Degree Down Angled Micro USB Screw Mount to USB 3.0 A Type Data Cable 3m 10ft https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S6GGFKO/re ... UTF8&psc=1

No issues whatsoever with either HP3dscan or FlexScan3D when connected to the motherboard on my old PC.
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