Help deciding on buying scanner

Which equipment do you use for 3D-scanning?
vitasikuk
Posts: 1
Joined: 07 Jan 2023, 22:25

Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by vitasikuk »

Hello ladies and gentlemen. happy new year to everyone and may this one be much better and stable than the last one.

I am playing with cars quite a bit as hobby and occasionally I do weird things like engine swaps, weird mods, etc,etc.

So I have been toying with the idea of 3d scanner for a while, as an owner of Creality Ender 6 was looking at Lizard, but that led to many other options, potential problems, etc,etc. Most reviews and comparisons of different scanners side by side dont cover my usage and some contradicting info online confused me alot.

So my main usage will be:

precise scan to get referance geometry of engine to gearbox patterns, engine mounts, brackets, manifolds, etc,etc.
I have considered mainly 3 scanners:

Creality Lizard ( least likely now to be the correct one, but might be wrong)
Revopoint Pop 2
Revopoint Mini

By specs Mini should be overall winner, but all reviews were done on small objects mostly on turntable.The one that was used as handheld failed miserably. My case will be more awkward - dodgy lighting, partially outside ( storage facility). Pop 2 seems to cover that the best, but again info is contradicting.

I dont want to spend more money for Mini and end up having same results or worse than Pop2 or Lizard.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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greenskynet
Posts: 171
Joined: 12 Nov 2021, 19:02

Re: Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by greenskynet »

Happy new year 😍
You need a professional software and scanner.
I can suggest you my modified version of FlexScan3D. (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2305)
I have several clients who are active in reverse engineering field using my modified version of FlexScan3d to scan and reverse accurate parts like Engine blocks and molds and ...
Also you can join our Telegram group to meet my clients and engineers and see their scan results. (https://t.me/DIY_3D_Scanner)

watch this video. it is about scanning a block engine on a turntable. this scan was done with one of my clients (Mr. Leo).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3TpsNqHfL0&t=14s

L1.jpg
L2.jpg
L3.jpg
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OBNRacerMan
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Joined: 12 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Obninsk, Russia

Re: Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by OBNRacerMan »

vitasikuk wrote: ↑07 Jan 2023, 22:41 Creality Lizard ( least likely now to be the correct one, but might be wrong)
Revopoint Pop 2
Revopoint Mini
Hello.
As for the Revopoint Mini, it is very inconvenient for large objects, so it should not be considered for most tasks.
In fact, the real choice is only three models (which have a fairly low price) - Creality Lizard, Revopoint POP2 and Shininng Einstar (the latter requires very powerful hardware).
P.S. I have a Lizard, and they gave me a POP2 test - and it is somewhat preferable, because it can work with markers, which is very important when scanning large objects, such as an engine. But it is desirable for him to matte the scanned details, since he does not see "black / dark" well.
I also recommend watching this video - https://youtu.be/mYplfztpmxU (it compares four models of handheld scanners from the above, and one more - Creality CR01)
Soft: RangeVision DIY, Calibration panel/Rotary tables - RangeVision, Prj: LG PF1500G, Cam: Daheng Mercury MER2-630-60U3M-L (USB3.0, monochrome) x2, Obj: ZLKC FM12036MP5 (F2.8/5Mp/12-36mm) x2. And a handheld scanner Creality Ferret
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greenskynet
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Re: Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by greenskynet »

OBNRacerMan wrote: ↑08 Jan 2023, 10:09
vitasikuk wrote: ↑07 Jan 2023, 22:41 Creality Lizard ( least likely now to be the correct one, but might be wrong)
Revopoint Pop 2
Revopoint Mini
Hello.
As for the Revopoint Mini, it is very inconvenient for large objects, so it should not be considered for most tasks.
In fact, the real choice is only three models (which have a fairly low price) - Creality Lizard, Revopoint POP2 and Shininng Einstar (the latter requires very powerful hardware).
P.S. I have a Lizard, and they gave me a POP2 test - and it is somewhat preferable, because it can work with markers, which is very important when scanning large objects, such as an engine. But it is desirable for him to matte the scanned details, since he does not see "black / dark" well.
I also recommend watching this video - https://youtu.be/mYplfztpmxU (it compares four models of handheld scanners from the above, and one more - Creality CR01)
Hi OBNRacerMan, thank you for sharing info.
Generally Hand Held scanners have less accuracy than stationary scanners. Even this case is related to high end handheld scanners like GOM brand.
Application of handheld scanners is for very large objects and when you don't need high details with high accuracy, for example scanning body of a car.
for high detail scans, and when you need to capture the details with high accuracy, all companies recommend to use station scanners.

And if you want to know more reasons for this suggestion: generally handhelds scanners can't be run on high resolution cameras, because no processor can handle live huge data in real time. Also handheld scanners must have high frame rate cameras, and this limits resolution of the cameras.

Also due to processing methods of handheld scanners, and also their patch tracking methods, they never can reach accuracy of a stationary scanners, specially if you are thinking about laser handheld scanner. (generally hand held scanners have accuracy for about 1/10 accuracy of stationary scanners)

And in the last, I want to tell you that Shininng Einstar is not a real 3D scanner like what we use in industries. actually it is only two depth cameras + one RGB camera. it is mostly designed to capture objects like sculptures and art works. I mean don't look at some beautiful scans in advertisement, those beautiful meshes are obtained by smooth merging scans which deforms geometry of the shape a lot. (in FlexScan we have this option too. we can merge meshes with "Exact Mode" or with "Smooth Mode". the Exact mode doesn't deform mesh at all and it is used for accurate scans for reverse engineering, but Smooth mode yield very beautiful mesh but with small deformation which is suitable for direct 3d printing and ...).

and if you have Revopoint or Shininng Einstar by yourself, I can suggest you to do a test to understand my point: I suggest you to scan a long object (for example a completely straight 1.5 meter rod with diameter of 10cm, or something like it), then you can see that your scan result is deformed and the mesh is not straight, I mean the mesh will be bent (the deviation can be from 0.3mm to even 2mm or more). this is related to path tracking method of a hand held scanner.

I hope my description helps to make a better decision for scanner selection 😍
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OBNRacerMan
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Location: Obninsk, Russia

Re: Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by OBNRacerMan »

greenskynet wrote: ↑08 Jan 2023, 11:54 Generally Hand Held scanners have less accuracy than stationary scanners.
Unfortunately, when I had POP2 on my hands, there were no tags for it, and without them, it loses tracking very easily.
My Lizard does not know how to work with tags at all, and even despite the peculiarities of its software, which allow it to keep tracking quite well, it does something unimaginable as a result :o :? .
You can't watch this without crying.
You can't watch this without crying.
Regarding accuracy, I completely agree that scanners based on depth sensors with IR illumination provide only approximate accuracy (but in many cases it is enough for such work as scanning a car engine to prepare new mounts for it - high accuracy is not needed there). Another advantage of handheld scanners (in general) is that they can easily get into places where the SLS scanner cannot be pushed. For this reason, if we have a separate object, it is better (if possible) to scan it with a stationary scanner, and when it is a cramped space somewhere under the hood of a car, a manual scanner is more optimal and convenient there.
P.S. As an option - hand-held laser scanners - but their cost is at least an order of magnitude more expensive for the cheapest versions. In addition, without sticking a bunch of markers on an object or around it, they don’t work at all.
Soft: RangeVision DIY, Calibration panel/Rotary tables - RangeVision, Prj: LG PF1500G, Cam: Daheng Mercury MER2-630-60U3M-L (USB3.0, monochrome) x2, Obj: ZLKC FM12036MP5 (F2.8/5Mp/12-36mm) x2. And a handheld scanner Creality Ferret
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Micr0
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Joined: 15 Nov 2016, 15:20
Location: New York City

Re: Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by Micr0 »

OBNRacerMan wrote: ↑08 Jan 2023, 12:34
greenskynet wrote: ↑08 Jan 2023, 11:54 Generally Hand Held scanners have less accuracy than stationary scanners.
Unfortunately, when I had POP2 on my hands, there were no tags for it, and without them, it loses tracking very easily.
My Lizard does not know how to work with tags at all, and even despite the peculiarities of its software, which allow it to keep tracking quite well, it does something unimaginable as a result :o :? .
2022.12.29_toolbox_02.jpg
Regarding accuracy, I completely agree that scanners based on depth sensors with IR illumination provide only approximate accuracy (but in many cases it is enough for such work as scanning a car engine to prepare new mounts for it - high accuracy is not needed there). Another advantage of handheld scanners (in general) is that they can easily get into places where the SLS scanner cannot be pushed. For this reason, if we have a separate object, it is better (if possible) to scan it with a stationary scanner, and when it is a cramped space somewhere under the hood of a car, a manual scanner is more optimal and convenient there.
P.S. As an option - hand-held laser scanners - but their cost is at least an order of magnitude more expensive for the cheapest versions. In addition, without sticking a bunch of markers on an object or around it, they don’t work at all.
A few years ago, I designed an airbag front suspension for an older Ford pickup with The Ford I beam suspension. I used an artec ava to scan the suspension mounts and wheel wells. I can't imagine having to do that with my David Rig..

That said, I have a revo mini now. I think scanning something as big as the underside, of that pickup would have been difficult.
Β΅
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greenskynet
Posts: 171
Joined: 12 Nov 2021, 19:02

Re: Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by greenskynet »

OBNRacerMan wrote: ↑08 Jan 2023, 12:34
greenskynet wrote: ↑08 Jan 2023, 11:54 Generally Hand Held scanners have less accuracy than stationary scanners.
Unfortunately, when I had POP2 on my hands, there were no tags for it, and without them, it loses tracking very easily.
My Lizard does not know how to work with tags at all, and even despite the peculiarities of its software, which allow it to keep tracking quite well, it does something unimaginable as a result :o :? .
2022.12.29_toolbox_02.jpg
Regarding accuracy, I completely agree that scanners based on depth sensors with IR illumination provide only approximate accuracy (but in many cases it is enough for such work as scanning a car engine to prepare new mounts for it - high accuracy is not needed there). Another advantage of handheld scanners (in general) is that they can easily get into places where the SLS scanner cannot be pushed. For this reason, if we have a separate object, it is better (if possible) to scan it with a stationary scanner, and when it is a cramped space somewhere under the hood of a car, a manual scanner is more optimal and convenient there.
P.S. As an option - hand-held laser scanners - but their cost is at least an order of magnitude more expensive for the cheapest versions. In addition, without sticking a bunch of markers on an object or around it, they don’t work at all.
Thank you for sharing info πŸ˜πŸ˜πŸ‘πŸ»πŸ‘πŸ»
The most noticeable advantage of a laser scanner is that it can scan completely shiny objects like chrome, but laser scanners have very low accuracy, because they are completely dependent on the markers to track the patch and for alignment (I can say that a laser scanner never works without photogrammetry and markers).
I should mention that in my new update I've added Shiny Object Scanning mode to my modified version of FlexScan3d. It is very very effective. now my clients can scan shiny objects like metal surfaces with no need to spray and matte them 😎. please check this link for more info: viewtopic.php?p=5275#p5275
mading
Posts: 307
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 13:09

Re: Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by mading »

Hi,
A DIY stationary scanner based on RangeVision would provide precise results, well suited for your purpose.
People often scan car parts with these kind of setup.
It will cost like a couple of MINI (for license and HW), and will require a bit of work for putting projector and cameras together.
But you will have the support of the RV team and a of the few users around.
LG PF50, LG PF1500, RangeVision DIY: 2x DahengMer630, 2X12 and 2X16 mm 5Mp ZK lenses, RV turntable
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greenskynet
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Joined: 12 Nov 2021, 19:02

Re: Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by greenskynet »

mading wrote: ↑09 Jan 2023, 20:56 Hi,
A DIY stationary scanner based on RangeVision would provide precise results, well suited for your purpose.
People often scan car parts with these kind of setup.
It will cost like a couple of MINI (for license and HW), and will require a bit of work for putting projector and cameras together.
But you will have the support of the RV team and a of the few users around.
RV is a good software too, but as you may know due to political issues for Russia, RV can't export goods and services to foreign (RV is from Russia).

And about support for the software: Do you have any doubt about about my technical support for my modified version of FlexScan3D? 😎
We have online technical support for modified version of FlexScan3D from beginner level to professional level, and you will receive the answer of your questions via online chat in few minutes. Also we have an active telegram group, there you can meet several users and their scan results and consult each others.

Along with all this, I will do customization for each of my clients, for example today one of my clients had two cameras but they were not in the same brand, same resolution and same pixel format, he had to replace one of his cameras, but I offered him for a custom version of FlexScan3D to bypass this issue, and now he is using my software version without spending any extra money for new cameras.

Generally I'm very interested in personal customization, because each person has a specific idea or need and the sum of these ideas meet each other in my software version and turns it into the best and most powerful software in the world 😍😍
mading
Posts: 307
Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 13:09

Re: Help deciding on buying scanner

Post by mading »

greenskynet wrote: ↑10 Jan 2023, 10:36 RV is a good software too, but as you may know due to political issues for Russia, RV can't export goods and services to foreign (RV is from Russia).
As you told us, even flexscan did not sell their software to your country (when F3D was still in the market).
This does not stop you from make profit with their work.
Does Flexscan sells the software today? No, since a few years.
How can a DIYer use your "modified" version? It need a cracked version of F3D.
Tell me if I'm wrong.

I understand your interest in selling your modified version.
Also, it's probably the most affordable solution for DIY.
But since you have to use a cracked Flexscan version, I would not recommend it.

Everybody can find information on how to purchase the RV kit:
https://rangevision.com/en/products/diy/
It is a software mantained and updated regularly
LG PF50, LG PF1500, RangeVision DIY: 2x DahengMer630, 2X12 and 2X16 mm 5Mp ZK lenses, RV turntable
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