YW500U3 cam incompatible on some USB3 chipsets?

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Tzk
Posts: 32
Joined: 17 Mar 2020, 13:28

YW500U3 cam incompatible on some USB3 chipsets?

Post by Tzk »

It's been a while since i showed my first scans. Currently i'm running into issues with my YW500U3 camera. Up to now i ran it on my desktop machine which worked fine. As i proceed further i'd like to connect it to my laptop to have a portable rig.

However, i'm unable to connect the camera to my old trusty Dell L501x or even an old HP Elitebook 8540p. Both are about 10 years old (2011/12) and got Renesas uPD720200AF1 USB3 controller built in. My desktop rig has a native Intel USB3 controller. It looks like the Renesas is completely incompatible to the USB cam, as i can run it in USB2 mode using a USB2 cable, but trying USB3 will fail on both notebooks.
I went on to purchase a USB3 Expresscard with Fresco FL1100 controller, but still no success. Now i'll try a Renesas uPD720202, the successor of the built-in controller...

Maybe you guys can help me out a bit. I know that some of you own the YW500U3 camera... Which USB controller is it working with? ;)

If that doesn't help either, then i'll have to borrow or buy a newer laptop or just purchase another camera.
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OBNRacerMan
Posts: 372
Joined: 12 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Obninsk, Russia

Re: YW500U3 cam incompatible on some USB3 chipsets?

Post by OBNRacerMan »

I once tried running them on a motherboard with an old P45 chipset (which didn't have USB3.0 support). I tried PCI-E boards based on VIA805 and Renesas - cameras could work via USB3.0 only in low resolution (800 * 600) - apparently the bandwidth of this ancient PCI-E was very low ...
On more modern chipsets, which I later tried - Z87, Z390 and now on Z490 - no problems were noticed.

P.S. I would also like to ask - which Windows is installed? If you have Windows 7, then these cameras in USB3.0 mode do not work on any chipset (the camera is visible as a device, but there is no image) Because of this, I switched to Windows 10 - everything works as expected.

Those. if it was Win 7 - try connecting to a computer with Win10 and see what happens (under normal circumstances, such a camera will be available even through the built-in Camera application)
Soft: RangeVision DIY, Calibration panel/Rotary tables - RangeVision, Prj: LG PF1500G, Cam: Daheng Mercury MER2-630-60U3M-L (USB3.0, monochrome) x2, Obj: ZLKC FM12036MP5 (F2.8/5Mp/12-36mm) x2. And a handheld scanner Creality Ferret
Tzk
Posts: 32
Joined: 17 Mar 2020, 13:28

Re: YW500U3 cam incompatible on some USB3 chipsets?

Post by Tzk »

Ok, so this is almost what i'm experiencing right now. Both laptops got an old HM55 Intel chipset, so first Gen Core (i5 620m and i5 460m cpus). Both run on Win10 20H2, the latest feature update. I tested downgrading one of them to Win7 and as you mentioned that made things worse. My main desktop rig has a Z170 chipset with a i7 7700k, no issues running the camera on its Intel usb3 chipset.

If i use the default Microsoft xHCI driver for the Renesas chipsets, the camera works in USB2 mode, but fails in USB3 ("not enough resources"). However if i install the USB3 driver by the USB chipsets manufacturer (Fresco or Renesas), then the camera will work in USB3 mode, but only in low resolution - so just as you described it. I'm using the standard win10 "Camera" app to test this, if the camera connects it works just fine.

The bandwidth issue is an interesting thought. The second laptop has an ExpressCard interface which i used to try the Fresco FL1100 USB3 expresscard. This slot is only connected with a PCIe 1.0 x1 lane (2.5Gbit/s), while USB3.0 has a 5Gbit/s link. That might be the issue why the connection fails. Today another expresscard will arrive with a uPD720202 controller, just to doublecheck. We'll see if that helps. If not, then i'll have to borrow a newer laptop to try portable scanning...

Thanks for your thoughts so far, i'll try a few things and keep you updated :)
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OBNRacerMan
Posts: 372
Joined: 12 Aug 2019, 09:46
Location: Obninsk, Russia

Re: YW500U3 cam incompatible on some USB3 chipsets?

Post by OBNRacerMan »

You can also try to see what programs like USB Deview (from NirSoft) or USB TreeView write - these are small programs that do not require installation, showing additional information about USB devices and controllers (and the former can also show the current consumption for each device). USB3.0 cameras have a power consumption of 900-980mA.
Attachments
USBTree_x64.rar
Shows extended information on USB devices
(183.33 KiB) Downloaded 299 times
USBDeview.rar
Shows extended information on USB devices + current consumption
(153.77 KiB) Downloaded 333 times
Soft: RangeVision DIY, Calibration panel/Rotary tables - RangeVision, Prj: LG PF1500G, Cam: Daheng Mercury MER2-630-60U3M-L (USB3.0, monochrome) x2, Obj: ZLKC FM12036MP5 (F2.8/5Mp/12-36mm) x2. And a handheld scanner Creality Ferret
Tzk
Posts: 32
Joined: 17 Mar 2020, 13:28

Re: YW500U3 cam incompatible on some USB3 chipsets?

Post by Tzk »

Indeed i've used those tools extensively. That's how i noticed that the camera will only connect in USB1 mode ("low speed" in USBTreeView) when i install the Renesas driver instead of using the one shipped with Win10 (Microsoft WHQL). If i use the MS driver, then the camera connects in USB3 mode ("superspeed") but i'm limited to <2mpix or the screen goes black and the connection to the camera fail until i replug the USB cable.

The third USB3 controller has just arrived and i tried it (Renesas uPD720202). As expected i got the same result as with the Fresco FL1100 and the Renesas uPD720200AF1. So still no success... I again tried various drivers, ports and USB3 hardware (USB3 sticks work perfectly fine on any chipset). The camera must do something odd so that either the pcie connection of the USB controller or the USB3 connection itself fails.

I even suspected that the camera opens too many endpoints for data pipes on the USB connection, but USBTreeview reports only 3 endpoints which isn't that much. Afaik the USB3 endpoint limit on a single controller is at 10 or 16. So that was a dead end...

I guess i'll have to test the camera on other machines with newer USB3 chipsets next. Maybe i can borrow a few laptops of different chipset generations for this to try. At least i'll give up on getting the camera running on my old laptops as i'm out of ideas right now...
Tzk
Posts: 32
Joined: 17 Mar 2020, 13:28

Re: YW500U3 cam incompatible on some USB3 chipsets?

Post by Tzk »

Just to keep this topic updated:
I tried my camera on a recent Ryzen 3500u Laptop (Thinkpad E495) and it worked fine. I guess i'll have to either use my desktop machine or buy a new(er) laptop with either Ryzen or at least a 4th gen Intel (80 series chipset or newer).
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